What would you say is your primary medium?
Right now? Probably aerosol cans. Yeah, just like mural work, acrylic. Yeah, mainly like murals and stuff.
Is that something that you've worked in all your life or recently started working in?
I started seven years ago. And it's just, it's just been a wild ride. You know, it's been really fun just like discovering Okay, like, wow, I'm actually kind of good at this. You know, let's see how far we can push this whole discipline and see where it takes me. I knew it wasn't the thing I'd be doing when I'm 80, I know that, but it is something that still piques my interest. It's still relatively fun. But I'm getting into all these other mediums and stuff. And I've always been like a mixed media kind of guy. I started with pencil when I was a kid, like everybody else, you know, pencils and crayons and stuff. I think the only difference is I didn't stop. I think that's probably like the biggest strength is just, I guess being too dumb to quit, you know? But yeah, so I started with pencils, started getting into painting and stuff and just different things. Then I landed on just aerosol cans, mostly for efficiency. I was painting with airbrushes, rollers, paint brushes, like anything and everything that you could mark a wall with, I was using. And then I was like, Damn, if I'm starting to travel and stuff, I don't see how I can bring all this stuff on every trip. I hate hauling it around. You have to clean, like, you know, 15 different things as opposed to just throwing away a plastic spray cap from an aerosol can. So it just became like more of an efficiency thing than anything else. But yeah, I think that's where I landed as far as a medium.
Have you been doing this professionally for the past seven years?
Yes, yes. Murals seven years. This stuff probably I don't know, like two to three years. What I mean by this stuff is, I’ve got a CNC machine, I have a 3d printer. I have basically all the tools that you would use for creating something and really like, imagination first projects. So it's like, okay, let's not be limited by what these machines can do, let's just throw off limits. What do you want? You know, a guy asked me for an agave necklace with like diamonds in it and I'm like, I'm not a jewelry maker. I don't know the first thing about like, anything as far as jewelry goes, but I'll figure it out, we'll figure it out. I think that now, along with the medium or whatever, It's just that. It's figuring stuff out. I think that's probably like my most favorite thing, because that means it forces me to learn. Sometimes people are paying me, you know, not a cheap sum of money to figure something out. I make the joke, I'm kind of like a doctor, you pay me to practice. Whether it be on your wall, or whether it be you know, an agave piece of jewelry. I've done 3D lit signs, you know, like channel lit signs and box letter stuff, you know, any of the vinyl stuff that you see. That's all stuff that we can do as well. And I really just, I want to serve customers in a way where, if they had an idea, just to be like, yeah, we can do that, you know? And it's just, it's served me pretty well so far. I mean, we just got this shop maybe a month and a half ago (February). And we're just starting to occupy it with all the tools, occupy it with thoughts. And, you know, people that I wouldn't normally talk to in my basement where I was working, now we have kind of a storefront and a place where people can walk in the door and feel welcome. I think that a lot of the times you know, if you walk into a sign shop, if you walk into a place with a bunch of 3D printers, it’s sterile as hell, you know. They're just like, what are you doing here? Like, do you have business here? Just kind of like, hey, right out of the gate, we don't want you here. I don't want people to feel that when they walk in these doors, you know, I want them to feel like, holy crap, they’ve got a 3d printer, how does that work? Oh, let me show you. Come back on Monday, we actually have meetings specifically to show people all the cool stuff that we're doing and how you can do it. If you have a business idea, or if you have a project that you're working on, like, let's figure it out together, because it's awesome to learn. And it's awesome to figure stuff out together. You know, you're a camera guy, and a photographer and whatever else you are, you know, I don't want to put you in a box, but like, you have a set of skills. I think everybody has a set of skills that they can share with the world, but we haven't been given permission to practice these things and fail and fail loud you know, and do all the shit that, you know, we're told not to do and stay within the lines. I just say like, you know, Why? Why haven't you been able to fail? You know, who said you should not fail? Was that your parents? I'm sorry, that's not the reality of life. We mess up all the time and we learn, you know and I think that's the biggest thing is just learning from your mistakes and stuff.
Where do you get your inspiration from?
Usually It comes from a lot of places. Obviously if I'm serving a client, it's like our baby. I wouldn't come up with the idea without them, they wouldn't come up with the idea without me. So it's this interaction of two ideas that are coming into like, this cute little baby that is gonna make me money, it’s gonna make them money down the road because it'll be a marketing piece or whatever it is for them. Individual ideas are usually of either the business sort, or like I have this visual concept that I really kind of obsess over for a little while. It always just comes out in the projects that clients asked me to do anyway, like, I've been obsessed with mountains. Have you played like Death Stranding? They totally took this concept, and it's not my idea, it's just out there, but, I feel like I grabbed on to like, just the idea of things on Earth having a strand attaching them to heaven or whatever is above. And what's really cool about the game is you don't see what's above, you just see the strand going into nothing, or like into this fog. I think that's such a powerful concept because basically, at least for me, it illustrates that everything you see has like a tie to heaven. I don't say that as a religious term, you know, I believe in God and Jesus and everything, but like, a lot of people don't connect with that because they have their biases and I want to make sure that these concepts are accessible to the world because the world needs awesome things, you know, things that need to exist for people to enjoy. With this concept, it's very powerful to see a visual representation of something on Earth that's inhabiting the ground, but it also has a tie to the sky. I think it's just so cool. So I'm just obsessed with mountains, and this lady asked me to do a nursery piece for their unborn child, and I thought, both concepts are really cool because they asked for mountains, but also they're bringing this thing that didn't exist into existence. So you have that heavenly strand, you know, attaching these mountains and these streams to heaven, to this unformed energy. And so I thought it was a cool concept. I threw it at them, and they're like, oh my gosh, this is so great, we love it, when can we give you a deposit so you can start on the job! And like, that excitement is what I live for I think because like, yes, I have ideas as an artist that need to exist and I will bring them about no matter what, but it's just so much more rich when you can actually serve with those ideas. Because then you're connecting somebody to, I guess, like infinite possibility. Because if you're constantly accustomed to just grabbing onto ideas, and just like letting them exist in your palm without really holding them too tight, then they're available for somebody to walk into those doors and receive this eternal gift, you know. And it's not something that I'm like, oh, you need me to give you this gift, no, I'm just, I'm just some dumb asshole who's keeping an open mind about things and I'm willing to receive those things, and then I'm willing to give them away. I think everybody has that power, they're just not aware of it. And for the people that are aware, sometimes they just hold on to artistic concepts a little too tightly and who knows, I'm not judging them for it, but I just think that like, at least for me, those things are meant to be shared, you know? So my inspiration I think just comes from being receptive to today, and just figuring out okay, what are we gonna do today?
What keeps you motivated?
I think just the fact that, like, I'm addicted to creating. I guess what excites me most is the unknown, and that's what keeps me going. It’s like, even when I've reached a certain height. I don’t get annoyed, I appreciate when people say Chris, you're doing it! You've made it, blah blah blah, I'm like, f*ck you, I've made it. I'll make it when I'm dead, you know, and even then, like, my energy is gonna be transferred somewhere else and just gonna continue along with everybody else. What keeps me going is just the fact that I can keep going, that there is no limit, you know? And that excites me because when I think like this is the last job like this is, stamp, I've made it you know, I already know that's not true. The logical part of me is like, Chris, you need to finish this job because you've been on it way too long. That's like me hiring the artist to do a good job and I'm like, okay, you need to finish this job so we get paid because you know, the lights don't keep themselves on, you got to pay for electricity. It's just like, the pursuit, you know.
Do you enjoy trying out new things?
Yeah, I don't know how to use that laser cutter back there. I haven't hooked it up yet, I'm trying to get somebody to come and hook it up for free and then tell me how to use it. I structure this whole business, weird thing, that I have going on as pay to play. So I pay my dues, I get rid of those work orders that I have on the wall, so that I can pay for the monetary things, but then like, also buy back time. And what I do with that time is I learn how to use these pieces of equipment and I just explore the possibilities. And it really is just playing, you know, kids are good at it and somewhere along the way we lose the sense of how we play. But it's in playing that you learn the most, you know? So if you stop playing, you're gonna stop learning up to the potential level that you could be learning. We all learn by repetition, you know, one plus one equals two, all that shit, and that's just learned by repetition. But if you're excited about a project or excited about a subject, you're playing with it, you're figuring out what works and what doesn't and it's like this mix between science and art. Playing and not taking yourself too seriously, but just being so laser focused, and being so serious about your play, that you learn stuff just exponentially, way better than you would any other way. In a classroom setting, some parts are just like drudgery, you know. Like invoices used to be drudgery until I just put the idea of, I'm printing money right now, as soon as I hand this over, I'm gonna get money for it. That's exciting, you know? So I don't know, I just enjoy playing you know, figuring it out.
Are there any opportunities you think you’ve been afforded by being in the Boise area?
Absolutely Yeah. I always tell people Nampa, the Boise area, we're still dormant. There's still plenty of shoulder room for people with ambition, you know? And for the people that don't have ambition, they just get out of the way, they're not making a decision. People think, I'm gonna make a decision and everybody else will wait for me. Like, literally, that's how driving is around here too, which is funny because you can kind of get that sense, but that's a microcosm of the bigger picture, which is that the city is waiting for people to take ambition to take things into their own hands and to create work, if you can't find work, make it. There's so much opportunity here, you know, and the growth and what's happening like, I'm just super excited about it. Bring on the Californian's because they bring the money, and that's what puts food on my table, you know? I'm a creative, so if one thing doesn't work, I'll figure out what will work and what they will buy or whatever. And it's not all about the business, it's not all about the dollar, but there's plenty of opportunity for that. You can get paid well, you can create well, you can do a lot of cool stuff and there's room for it. So yeah, it's exciting.
Are people seeking you out for work or do you still have to find it?
Even though there's limitless opportunity everywhere, I'm a firm believer in that, you still have to pay your dues man. If you're young in the art or whatever it is that you're pursuing, if you're trying to start a painting business or just wherever the hell you're doing, you’ve got to pay your dues. What I mean by that is, you’ve got to get used to finding and recognizing the opportunities that are right in front of you, that are right in front of everybody, but you're capitalizing on the opportunities that pertain to your talent, your value, whatever is your passion. Now my hustle is in a specific direction, and people are coming to me for mural work, they're coming to me for creative stuff and that's cool. I feel like I've paid my dues. I'm kind of hitting that tipping point where now it's kind of an easy ride down. But once it becomes easy, it becomes boring. So now I'm like, okay, how can we move this momentum that we already have? How can we steer it in a way where I'm actually doing more of the idea work, where I'm encouraging others to pursue their passions, and creating opportunities for artists that are green and don't have any business sense, and getting them experience and helping them figure out how to do an invoice. The boring shit that everybody's like, I don't want to do that, I just want to get out there and paint. It's like, yeah, but what happens when you fall in love and you have a kid with that person and that person needs for you to grow up a little bit, you know? And it's not growing up and letting go of your dreams, it's growing up and figuring out how the world works and seeing how you can employ the world's resources to fulfill your dream.
They don't teach you the business part in school.
No, you know, they wouldn't, and I don't get that because it would be good business to teach people how to do good business. You know what I mean? And let's be honest, the school system is a business. So be honest about it and teach people the skills that you are exercising on them to get them into your schools, like how is that going to hurt you? They teach you how to work for somebody else and it's like, what happens if you get fired? What happens if you really hate your job? It's doing what you love but they just took all the love out of it, you know? I love music. I still love writing music, but as soon as I started to learn how to actually write the notes and stuff and figure all this stuff out, it just became daunting and I'm like, you guys are taking all the fun out of music. I love listening to it, I love enjoying it, and I don't hear any music. All I hear is rustling of sheet music, you know? And for the people that love that stuff and their brains work in a way where they can connect and express and experience flow while they're looking at a piece of sheet music, God bless you. But for me, that's not the case. I have to hear it. I have to feel it, you know. Consumer mindset, like people get bored with with certain stuff and then they gravitate towards what's easy to digest, so the easier it is to digest for somebody who's making the content, or writing the music or just doing whatever, the easier it is to teach somebody, you know, we're like the upper crust. This is how we learn and this is how we do it and it's like, kids are learning how to use computers, like without any formal training, just throwing a group of Third World kids in front of a computer, and they literally figure it out within hours. Boomers and stuff, God bless them, but like, they can't do that. It's because of that mental dexterity they lost that somewhere, along the assembly line and it's sad. It's a breakdown of the human spirit and we're having an awakening where people are starting to get wise and people are getting smarter. The regular consumer is getting uber smart with their purchasing decisions. Still not there yet, but we're getting better, you know, we're getting better at making our own decisions.
What does art mean to you?
I think art is important because it is the most beautiful love child of all the disciplines. I always tell people it's a fast track if you want to learn something in an exciting way. I don't know shit about welding. In high school, I had this art project that involved welding. So they're like, whoa, we’ve got to get you into the welding class so you can finish your project. I'm like, hell yeah, let's do this. I get in the welding class, I look over and there's a bunch of kids through this window, they're all doing paperwork. I asked one of the other welding students, what are they doing over there? They're like, oh, they're in welding class. What? They're doing paperwork. Yeah, you have to do like a month or two months worth of paperwork before you can even touch a welder. I didn't do any of that shit. Fast track baby, you know? I lit myself on fire, I made all the mistakes that you could do, the worst welder you will ever see. But I got my hands on a welder before any of those assholes. And that to me was just like a perfect lesson. That’s why art is important. Because when you have a project, or you have an idea, you have something that you're working on, you cut through so many disciplines in order to like, paint that portrait of a person with water running down their face. And like, there's so many things that you have to take account for. The trigonometry of the light hitting that person's face just regularly without water, but then you add water and it's a whole nother element because, you know, it almost looks like their skin is bubbling but it's actually the water refracting the light and it's pulling that image out, away from their face, which is like, so weird, you know, when you actually stop and think about it. You could just draw like different graphs and there's so much science in just painting a portrait like that. There's so much science in just the anatomys of the subjects that you are wanting to paint, or like, close your eyes and I'm just gonna paint an abstract piece that just comes straight from my head. You're still pulling out references and you're still like, what is your mood that day? what'd you eat, all that shit. There's so many variables that go into a piece of art that it is literally like an expression of all these different disciplines. So I think that's the most important thing about art is that we just understand it's involved with everything and it involves everything. It takes all of you to express yourself artistically, you know? What other discipline does that, where it takes all the disciplines you know, it's like it has like the monopoly on all disciplines. I mean, look around, everything that you see was designed first on a piece of scratch paper and was just an idea. And whether or not people say oh, that's commercial art or oh, that's not really art and blah blah blah like, whatever man, whatever works for you like, I just see art in everything, even in the creation where no man has touched, you know? And we still pull so many inferences from the reality that we're surrounded by where it's like, we're just we're surrounded by art. Art is everything, you know? So there's this great design that's just like happening and, you know, some people were just too blind to see it and it's sad, but they'll get it.
How did you do the forced perspective mural at Vertical View?
That technique, I've never done before. So they paid me to practice, but basically, what I did is, I had a tripod set up with my iPhone that was like, looking at the piece. Right? And then I had a TV with an Apple TV on it. So basically I was piping the feed into that. And then it was monitoring right there. And then I was right there working on the piece. And instead of going back to the vantage point every time I had to get a reference, all I had to do is just look over at the TV. Then I had my iPad as like, you know, the reference that I was using. So I'm basically comparing references. And so yeah, I looked it up, and I really have to do a more in depth YouTube video on it, but basically, like, I YouTubed that whole technique or whatever, and I couldn't find anything. I don't know if it's like a really well kept secret, or if people just don't like sharing or just whatever. I'm just like, dude, again, it's good business to share your tricks and to share your tips and stuff. The more content that you give out for free I think, the more attention you'll get, the more clout you'll get, because people will be coming to you and they'll be like, how do you do this? I saw the video, but still, can you explain it? And to me, I'm just like, oh, I gave you the video, what more do you want? But I know what they want. They actually want a friendship, they want a connection, like a human connection with somebody who kind of knows something about something, you know, and they want to feel important. So I don't mind taking the extra time to help them out and just show them hey, this is how you do it. And I could be repeating everything in the video. You could sell 100 courses, and people are still gonna want that time, you know? But, yeah, that was the process and it was really fun and like I said, I want to share it a little bit more completely in a YouTube video. Just so people know, and who knows maybe it goes viral and then we get more money for this facility and stuff. That's where all the money is going, it's not going to where I can buy like a Lexus. I don't need that shit. I don't need status. I need people to understand that you can create at the same level that I'm creating, you're just gonna have to pay your dues. That's it. It's a small price to pay, you know, especially for what you get out of it, you get an endless life of more creating and more learning and it just works for itself. It's just really cool that I have this opportunity. And that I know I'll be given more opportunity and I'll use it right. I'm not gonna get rich without other people getting rich by my side, you know? I just think that's a better economic model than hoarding everything and just trying to maximize your profit at the cost of your customers or the quality of the product. There's so many things that fall by the wayside when people get greedy. So that's the aim, really.
Is there anything you want to talk about that we haven't talked about yet?
I guess this could be just like a shameless plug. But like, if you're starting a business, if you are curious about where to take an invention, basically like an idea. If you have the rough workings of an idea and you just don't know the next step, come to us. We don't have all the answers and we're not going to give you all the answers. But we can examine it together and we can question it, poke holes in it, and give it a full scientific analysis and figure out how we can give you guys the next step on your idea. That's what we're passionate about. Along with all the work that we're doing and everything else, that's really where we want our niche. Just helping creatives figure out what the next step is in their creative endeavor. Whether it be your art, music, really just making it profitable so you can do that full time. Basically making your passion profitable and making sure that you have enough resources to do your dream and do it 100% you know?